15 and Gay: Should Gay Teens "Tone it down?"

I think there’s a time and place for everything. School time is job-time for students. Obviously if I walked into my job wearing a tuxedo I would get a couple of weird glances and not be taken very seriously.
It’s great that he found himself at an early age and is comfortable enough to express himself but at the same time he should realize that dressing flamboyantly at school is a definite way to get attention and not always the good kind.

Great question, Kathy!

I’m for self-expression anywhere and everywhere with an emphasis on specific safe spaces and people (like SMYRC here in Portland).

re: Angela: I think school, unless there is a dress code, is a perfect place to work on self-expression (incidentally, so is my workplace). The clothes we don and the styles we incorporate and create are all about our identities. If Ellen D were to show up on set in a girlie dress, she might get some “weird glances”, too. It’s her version of drag. She also might have gotten (and still get) those “weird glances” wearing the clothes she wears. But she wears them so well!

I haven’t read The Advocate article, but I am appalled at the suggestion that the blame lies with the victim! No! This is internalized homophobia, plain and simple! The implication here is that if we are not willing to play along, blend in, not make waves… essentially, stay in the Closet, then we should EXPECT to be killed!

I haven’t worn women’s clothes or shaved my legs since 1982, and I am not about to start now. And, I don’t expect to be murdered for it.

Middle school students have a right to be safe at school no matter who they are. Yes, I got beat up in middle school, too. But that was in the 70s. This is the 21st century. Hopefully, there has been some progress made!

re: Joan – I don’t think things have changed that much since you and I were at school. We are still a hated minority.

In principle, yes we should be able to do what we do without fear of persecution, but in reality that just isn’t the case. Someone ought to tell young gay people that the world is a nasty place, and they should be a bit careful until they are old enough to know when and where they are safe.

I just graduated from highschool, in Canada though. But EVERYBODY was so accepting. I honestly don’t think its as bad as it used to be. And I go to a REALLY catholic school, run by nuns and all. I think that you can’t just generalize all the schools. Also what i find is that at least 99% of all the people around my age could care less about your sexual orientaion. ( They’re actualy pretty curious and ask questions and all that stuff) There was even a transgender guy at my school. He never got bugged or anything either.

I agree with Joan. “The implication here is that if we are not willing to play along, blend in, not make waves… essentially, stay in the Closet, then we should EXPECT to be killed!”

Thank you!

Never seen an Indian woman wearing traditional Indian attire? And surely some people wouldnt think wearing that outside or to work is “the right place” for it. But it is part of that person, and I dont think anybody should be ‘expected’ to be killed for that. what is this communism?

I just graduated from HS. I came out when I was a second semester sophomore. Now I remember how my clothing changed. wore chains, cargo pants, boots. now I look back, I did go over the top and to the extreme — but it had to be there was no other way I saw it. Its not that I have mellowed down because I no longer care about what others might say or think, so I dont feel the need to say hey!!! i am queer and i am here. they dont need to know it until i decide they do. But the flaunting thing – as some call it. is not flaunting at all – its discovering.

Middle school is a war zone for everyone. I wasn’t out in middle school, high school, or college and my parents still cautioned me against being too outrageous for fear that I would be singled out and picked on.

Some people like the attention, others don’t. Punk kids, goth kids, gay kids, grunge kids, black kids…we all hung out together in jr/high school, were all minorities, and were all mocked equally…actually the goth kids a little more so. (I was a grunge kid…docs, flannel..and I wondered why everyone asked me if I was gay! I guess they knew something I didn’t, lol)

At any rate, any time a parent has a creative, unique child that is going against the majority the parents need to educate their kids about why other people are uncomfortable by their differences, and to be prepared to stand up for what they believe in.

Yeah, I think the “time and a place” argument gets uncomfortably close to victim-blaming. It isn’t right for rape and it isn’t right for homophobia. I think the question we should be asking is whether the clothing in general is appropriate for school? Is the kid violating the dress code, showing skin, etc? Would his clothing be inappropriate for a female his age? Yes, school is like work, but I go to work in man’s business clothes every day, and no one has a right to harass me about it. For that matter, my clothing is *more* conservative than traditional women’s clothing!

This is an unfortunate sticky situation. For one thing kids are so cruel these days. I don’t remember kids being like this when I was growing up. Because of society the way it still is I think he should tone it down for his sake. Just to keep himself safe. If he wants to be out that is great but just don’t go and throw it in people’s faces. That is one of the reasons why society doesn’t accept us because you have these people that don’t give a damn and will do anything in public. I’m not saying to live in a closet but there is a time and place.

The question that begs to be answered is: Is the way this kid dresses any more outrageous than say a Skinhead or a Gangsta in the same age group? All are looking to belong to a group and all are dressing to show the group that they identify with. Not all Skinheads, Gangstas or Gays are outrageous with the way they dress but many are. It is never OK to kill a kid who is searching for themselves no matter how they dress!!!

I am disgusted that both the Washington Post and, especially, the Advocate writers seem to think any blame at all goes to the gay kids for looking different. Would they also say that a woman in a short skirt “asked for it” if she were raped, or that a Muslim girl who suffers harassment deserves some blame for showing up to school in hijab? No. NO! A kid doesn’t have to make friends with another kid or like another kid or be comfortable with another kid, but they *do* have the obligation to at least leave another kid alone, and even a middle-schooler can understand that. Part of the educational value of a public school goes way past tests and textbooks. It is a place where children and teenagers learn that the world is made up of all different people, and how to deal with differences.

Now, if you had a very flamboyant gay kid come up to you and directly ask why nobody wants to be around him, you might suggest that he tone things down a bit. I would consider that a different situation. But nobody brings violence onto themselves just for being different where others can see them!

Well, I can honestly say I have no idea on this matter. I mean, when I came out in my freshman year of high school, it really seemed like no one cared. Like it was something that had nothing to do with them, which is how it really is. Unfortunately, that was a sign to my gay friend to come out too. Although he was already being harassed, he thought it was time and me and my friends were behind him the entire time. Big mistake. He kept getting harassed. Now, it may have been because where I live, a small town in Kentucky, homosexuality is a sin *a lot of baptists live in the area*. It drove him to attempt suicide. Now he’s okay, but we still hear the occastional “QUEER! FAG” remarks. But the thing is, is that he wasn’t all flamboyant. He didn’t wear flashy clothes, he dressed like a guy would, and even though he had purple in his hair, it looked more like he was with the emo scene than anything.

Really, though, I’m not so much an expert but, I think that gay teenagers should tone it down a little bit. Not a whole lot. For now, since they’re in high school, to just show enough to let people know they’re gay and they don’t care what they think. But for some reason, gay guys dressing like a woman is frightening for guys, so I think they just wait till college for that. But yeah, that’s just my opinion.

My age is almost 70. I grew up in Indiana, a very, very conservative place and a very scary place for gays in the early 1950’s. I was lucky because the one of the women’s baseball teams of the AAGBL (A League of Their Own) had a team there and played about 5 blocks from where I lived. The day I walked onto the field for tryouts, I met the relection of myself wanting to come out, My age 13, and finally was meeting my first known lesbian friends. My world changed, but school, unlike today, was intolerant of who I was. I was actually arrested on suspicion of being a homosexual at age 14. It was a terrifying experience for me. While I had to dress “appropriately” for school, including wearing only dresses and skirts. We lived for the moments when we could dawn my levi’s, white tee shirt and baseball cap and join my friends in our reality, after school. Do you think we got harassed and threatened? Yep, and often. It has taken all my life to finally wear what I want, when I want. I work at a middle school and I encourage tolerance for all students; but follow the dress code which does not stipulate anything usually but not wearing gang colors and showing too much skin.Middle school is where you either get more courage and support to be yourself; or you go on hiding forever and lose a most important freedom; being yourself. No one has the right to hurt or kill someone else because they are afraid of them because they are “different!” If this were so, many, many women would have killed many, many violent and abusive men who have hurt them or their children. Women and girls, lesbian,by or straight, can show us the way to tolerance and we need to enourage them to do so. I believe males live in fear of their own internalized homophobia; that shouldn’t be an excuse to kill anyone who is gay; deal with it, see a therapist, work it out and learn tolerance just like the rest of us have to do! Good luck!

This is an extremely difficult issue, but it is an issue that has a lot to do with the situation. If a child attends a middle school where he or she could be taunted, harassed, or abused because of his or her sexual orientation, the child in question should tone down there flamboyant clothing and expression. It may not be fair and it may not be right, but when mental or physical safety becomes an issue, safety vs. freedom of expression, safety should always triumph. As I said above, it may not be fair, however we live in an unfair world with unfair people. It’s important to be yourself and live how you want to live, but if doing so is dangerous to one’s health, reevaluate your priorities and decide which is more important.

I’ve read all these comments and have just one thing to say. What the hell is wrong with you people? A young boy was murdered and your trying to justify it and even blame him. Now im only 17 and went through my own little extreme Lesbian year when i first came out. But gay youth is growing up and feeling comfortable earlier with their sexuality and the Advocate a usually homosexual empowerer of all things is saying maybe this is a step in the wrong direction. What?! Now this whole issue is about teens dressing how they feel. How can any of you even say that its wrong? Teens across this nation dress differantly depending on many numerous factors. Now if someone feels umcomfortable with what your doing you should talk about and educate each other on your differances. instead of dwelling on them. I mean correct me if im wrong but i thought this country was about being free and being diverse.

Angela, school isn’t a job, and it isn’t analogous to a job.

Sarah, first you typed that few people your age cared about your sexual orientation, then you typed that people are curious about it. Which is it?

Saw, I hope that you are not implying that gay people in general dress the way they do to “show the group that they identify with.” I’m not sure who you’re referring to with the word “all.”

Liana, you might want to educate yourself on what communism is. It has nothing to do with harming people because of how they dress.

Carol Owens, this remark: “Middle school is where you either get more courage and support to be yourself; or you go on hiding forever and lose a most important freedom; being yourself,” is not true. Those aren’t the only choices. Some people don’t get more courage or support in middle school, and grow up to express themselves just fine.

In general, I agree with Heather. All youngsters (and adults, too) should be encouraged to tone down their physical presentation, whatever it is, only in situations where there is a serious threat of clear and present danger (that doesn’t include simple bullying). The key word there is “encouraged;” no one who can think for herself (that includes teenagers) should be obligated to bow to intimidation. It should be her choice.

Celebrate diversity!
I think that as the LGBTQQI community, we should understand what it’s like to be different in whatever sense. Everything is subjective. Who decides what’s acceptable and what’s not? At the end of the day, not one opinion is above all and it’s impossible to please everybody.

Weird glances are ok in maybe the first 10 minutes but after a while, should we still really care if this boy dresses up flamboyantly? And is that all we could focus on about the person?

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It seems so stupid to me. They’re asking if this kid’s clothing is making people uncomfortable? Excuse me? Who cares how he’s dressing! (Of course, that’s assuming he’s not wearing miny skirts and basically dressing like a hooker.) Is this kid talking about how being gay is so much better? Is he trying to convert people to gaydom? No? Then whats the big ****ing deal? Pardon my French.

We shouldn’t be teaching ANYONE to slow down on their self-expression! What we should be teaching is TOLERANCE on ALL levels.